Great project

Hello,

thank you for your work. Iam very excited to put this in my Pit.

I have a question about the forces ist it possible to use in future heavier motors or is it not necessairy.

Waiting for progess updates

kind regards Christian

Hi Christian

To be honest I was considering to start the project with joystick "hack" by Simprojects.nl as seen here  (http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm).
However I abandoned the idea just to keep things very simple so even people with not much technical skills can follow the build.  I think the current design provides enough force for good "desktop" use.
For heavy duty application like your cockpit (very nice work BTW) there is Ver.2 coming your way.  It' been already tested that with an existing electronics/motors and different reduction ratio the system can provide about three times as much as force as the current design with very smooth results.  Ver.2 will be build with these force in mind (e.g. aluminium parts, different layout, bearings, upgraded yoke wheel etc.)
Also there's a need for alternative solution to FS Force. Unfortunately I can't do C++ my self so I'm looking for someone to write little program which would naively interface and control sidewinder2 stick with slightly different features and parameters.
So to answer your question, if all goes according to a plan,  it is not necessary.

Regards Jay

Thank you for the information! I have also no programing knowledge . Maybe in some other forums like forums.eagle are people who are able to do this. I understood during my investigation mostly ???? and was tempting to buy one but budget restriction will not allowed this.

Thanks again waiting patiently for release

regards Christian

Good work! very interesting.

Is the "standard" ffb2 mod for increasing current to the motors used in the current version?

@ Pinello

I'm not sure what you mean by "standard ffb2 mod". If you are referring to this: http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm then the answer is no.
There is a lot of focus on simplicity of the build and this particular MOD requires advanced skills to perform so I abandoned the idea of "hacking" the stick.

Regards Jay

Hi

Its actually a little bit "easier" mod, look at post #2 in this thread:

*****forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152723

..if I remember correct it's doubling the current by soldering 6 resistors in parallell with existing resistors.

Regards

Hi JAy,

they posted your video in the forum pinello metioned. I bring in your homepage adress and your need for a programmer.

regards

Christian

Admin wrote:Hi Christian

.... there is Ver.2 coming your way.  It' been already tested that with an existing electronics/motors and different reduction ratio the system can provide about three times as much as force as the current design with very smooth results.  Ver.2 will be build with these force in mind (e.g. aluminium parts, different layout, bearings, upgraded yoke wheel etc.)
Also there's a need for alternative solution to FS Force. Unfortunately I can't do C++ my self so I'm looking for someone to write little program which would naively interface and control sidewinder2 stick with slightly different features and parameters.
Regards Jay

Do I understand you correct that the v2 will be version with propietary C++ software that extract data from the sims, calculate forces on the controller surfaces from the sims telemetry data, and communcate with DirectX-drivers for the joystick? That is very interesting, but not a small task. Basically the same as Ian at BFF does, and the FS-Force does. I guess finding a C++-programmer that are up for the task will be a challenge. Those are the real programmers..

But I actually hope that you in parallell to this finalize the v1, which I think many uf us would like to build. I realy like the "simple" concept of hacking a MS FFB2, a 3D printer and access to Ebay.. Also think that that will make some traction around here, wich I think the development of the v2 will benefit from.

What type of filament have you been using for the 3D parts so far?

Thanks for your help guys.

I didn't know about the project you mentioned in the link above. It's great because it's actually very similar to what I'm trying to achieve here. I'll definitely get in touch with the guy there.
To answer Pinello's question, v2 will be modified mechanically (no PCB hack) to provide great forces so it will require some control software to "limit" these forces.
FS Force is good for this purpose however it only supports  MSFS/P3D  and it will not simulate prop wash effect. I wrote several emails to Russ (developer of FS Force) but he doesn't seems to be very interested in expanding his software to it's full potential.  
So when you use v2 with any other simulator that won't directly support MSWFF2 stick, the yoke will set it self into "spring loading" mode with enormous centering forces.
Well Xplane already has similar addon too so the only problem comes with Aerofly FS2 which is really the flight sim that I use most lately. Ideally we would have one addon that would handle all three platforms and when it comes to unsupported sim we could simply set one profile to limit "spring loading" mode.
All that said, there is only so much MSWFF2 sticks out there so we will have to come up with alternative eventually.
You are right that it needs to be basically something like BFF's solution BUT much much cheaper and simpler. I'm convinced that Arduino is the way, we just need to get few great minds together  
Regarding your "easy hack" and printing material, I use PLA for the printed parts that come in direct contact with the motors. PLA is known for very low melting temps so if you choose to do the hack I would recommend printing from ABS.  

Last but not least
I want to release the package as soon as possible. Unfortunately due to my main work I don't get much time to write building tutorial so this is what will happen.
1. I will publish STL file package  (hopefully later tonight)
2. list of parts from eBay  (later this week)
3. detailed tutorial  (when it's done)

This will give you head start on printing at least

Thanks

Thanks for posting your plans so far!

Stick, not yoke, but I guess you have seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVcbvYWYiDw

He is using Arduino and software from:
http://x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=723

..and available "game" plug-in's for X-Sim:

http://www.x-sim.de/software.php?lang=eng&page=gamelist

Hi Pinello

Thanks for your input.
I'm aware of X-Sim project but mind you that was all designed around motion platforms only.
Although the plugins support flight sims they are created with different approach. I believe that someone would be able to write a plugin specifically for yoke or stick but there is another BUT.
X-sim is not an open source platform as such and you need to purchase license etc.
I'm want to find real open source community driven solution with no money involved:)

This is X-Sim not Xsimulator, and is freeware for DIY:

"X-Sim is universal software for commercial simulators and the Do It Yourself community. It is a ongoing private project with ten years of development history. It is freeware for non-commercial use. Outdated simulators can be migrated to X-Sim with full hardware and games support. Several companies make and sell X-Sim compatible hardware and software. Heuristics allow it to work with new games without having to wait for new games support."

I know its intended for motion platform, but the main part here is the extraction of telemetry-data from the simulators. The code for driving 2 Arduino-controlled motors is the part one has to figure out one-self. And that is what the guy with the DIY FFB joystick in the linked Youtube-video has done.

Regards

oh sorry mate, I thought we talking Xsimulator..

You've made a good point, I'll have to investigate a little;)

Cheers

the video above is actually the very same idea that was at the beginning of my yoke;)
I've had working "bungee winding mechanism" running on opencockpit's dc motor card as well..
Think I still have testing video somewhere